Curse

ac1inferno · Oct 05, 2010, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Hi, I am thinking of starting to Monk in RA for my Gladiator points and I am looking as these two builds:

[build prof=Monk/Warrior HealingPrayers=12+1+2 DivineFavor=10+1 Prot=2 Tactics=8][Patient Spirit][Word of Healing][Vigorous Spirit][Draw Conditions][Spotless Mind][Cure Hex][Dolyak Signet][Bonetti's Defense][/build]

or

[build prof=Monk/Warrior HealingPrayers=12+1+1 ProtectionPrayers=7+1 DivineFavor=8+1 Tactics=8][Patient Spirit][Word of Healing][Guardian][Dismiss Condition][Cure Hex][Holy Veil][Dolyak Signet][Bonetti's Defense][/build]

So my question is: Pure heal or Hybrid?

I am in favor of Hybrid but it seems the general consensus is that Pure Heal is better so I am going to throw my opinion out there and you can tell me how wrong I am.

In the case of Pure Heal, it is better than Hybrid only if your team is half-competent, such as a Ranger who can interrupt or a Squishy that brings self defense and/or stances. So this means you have to leave after every match until you get a good team.

But in the case of Hybrid, you can carry a bad team to at least five wins before you leave and try for a better team. Wouldn't this result in more Glad points?

Suggestions on how to improve the two bars are also welcome. And I base getting a good group entirely on luck because I am a loser and have no friends to sync with.

Errant Venture · Oct 05, 2010, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Pure heal is more efficient. Prots are less effective in general in RA (because you're acting as a lone healer, can't spec heavily into the prot line, and prots in general just aren't as effective in such an unorganized environment). Pure heal just uses your energy better (WoH or patient will amost always heal for more damage than guardian will prevent in RA). Draw lets you keep frontliners clean all the time (meaning they can pump more damage due to no weakness/blind and you have to do less healing b/c you're collecting all the degen on yourself). Disciples insignias + proepr shield sets mean you have massive damage reduction on yourself.

Shadow Sin · Oct 05, 2010, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Nope, you basically have the RA monk build set up. Pure heal is what everyone currently runs, unless you can actually kite , then alternatives open up for you.

Note, that unless you can TRULY kite, as in manage to stay 1.5 aggro bubbles away from the frontline, etc etc, running anything else is suicide (which is why the random monk you often get with Mo/R and Dshot / Stride is someone who can weapon swap, pays attention to the field etc)

Furthermore, the post above is correct. With Discipline and proper shield set (7/15 is best, weakness spam often brings down the 8 tactics to 7 and thus halving your armor gain) It's a permanent Shielding Hands on you, which in the long run, makes up for you having ~560ish HP (depends if you run a major healing headpiece to keep up Spotless at 15 seconds, so then you don't need to cast into your enchant set)

Sirius Bsns · Oct 05, 2010, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Errant Venture

Pure heal is more efficient. Prots are less effective in general in RA (because you're acting as a lone healer, can't spec heavily into the prot line, and prots in general just aren't as effective in such an unorganized environment). Pure heal just uses your energy better (WoH or patient will amost always heal for more damage than guardian will prevent in RA). Draw lets you keep frontliners clean all the time (meaning they can pump more damage due to no weakness/blind and you have to do less healing b/c you're collecting all the degen on yourself). Disciples insignias + proepr shield sets mean you have massive damage reduction on yourself.

That's not all Guardian's good for. A well-placed guardian can prevent a knockdown and/or interrupt. What does this mean? It means that's 3 seconds less that an ally [i.e.: say... your domination mesmer] is on his ass while taking a hammer warrior's damage. It means that his Backfire or VoR has a higher chance of landing, thus providing more damage output for your team's offense. Understand that Guardian is more than just damage mitigation alone, it's the ability to negate utility effected against your team in general. So to say that Guardian is bad is just plain ridiculous [no offense].

Shadow Sin · Oct 05, 2010, 07:26 AM // 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

That's not all Guardian's good for. A well-placed guardian can prevent a knockdown and/or interrupt. What does this mean? It means that's 3 seconds less that an ally [i.e.: say... your domination mesmer] is on his ass while taking a hammer warrior's damage. It means that his Backfire or VoR has a higher chance of landing, thus providing more damage output for your team's offense. Understand that Guardian is more than just damage mitigation alone, it's the ability to negate utility effected against your team in general. So to say that Guardian is bad is just plain ridiculous [no offense].

Guardian gets you interrupted (dshot, Power Spiked), and people shouldn't be KDed as often if they know how to kite (just remember positioning). Furthermore, the amount of damage preventable by a well-placed guardian detracts from the amount of speccing into Heal or Divine Favor or Tactics, all of which are meant to preserve the monk.

Also, if your Dom Mesmer doesn't know how to Cancel Cast or 40/40, they're doing it wrong.

Artisan Archer · Oct 05, 2010, 07:50 AM // 07:50

bring spirit bond in RA, cause the concept of +armor is good hasn't really landed at most people there. Also, it let's you cast through backfire and vor and stuff.

Spirit bond is good in RA imo.

Luminarus · Oct 05, 2010, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Spirit bond is too expensive in RA. I see someone cast spirit bond on someone as an ele, warrior, sin, derv watever that will regularly hit for above 60, I swap targets and laugh at the monks waste of 10 energy. Its why protting is so useless in RA. Damage these days comes so quickly, and is so easy to swap targets with you have no chance with protting it. Guardian has a 4 second recharge. In those 4 seconds, I can (as a sin) run up to one character, hit jagged getting the bleed in before you even cast guardian. Run to another, reuse jagged, and atleast get through to death blossom. You spent 5 to guardian the target, and now have to spend another 5 to heal the target im now wailing on.

As a warrior, I build adrenaline, and go to one target. If you guardian, I can change and now have a free opening to spike in before your guardian is ready again.

As a further example, the one skill you really want to guardian against a derv is wounding strike. I can use it on a guardianed target, get to a new one and use it again before your guardian is ready. Why bother with guardian, when its 90% of the time going to cost you 5 energy to very little gain. Sure it may help against rupts, but if your facing a rupter and they are letting you get your guardian off I wouldnt be too worried, in terms of facing a hammer warrior good kiting on your teams part is important, but for yourself thats where your stances come in.

Now to answer the OP's question, I run pure heal (as the rest of my post probably illuminated), however the main difference between what I run and the builds you listed is I like Shield Bash instead of Dolyak. Works better vs sins/hammer warriors by disabling their lead or elite. Can disable wounding. Considering the other options are dolyak, or balanced, balanced is too easily removed via Whirling Axe, Wild Blow/Throw/Strike, and is only good against kd's (the crit bonus isnt what people take it for). For Dolyak, id rather be able to kite them rather then have a sin get off 3 chains on me in 8 seconds coz I couldnt move.

ac1inferno · Oct 05, 2010, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Guardian does seem a little useless when a I get a good team and everybody has their own stances, but it seems my luck is to always get a Squishy with no self defense/stance and does not kite, so an enemy Warrior can stay Frenzy on them.

When I have a Guardian I can cast on those Squishy, it makes the enemy Warrior, or whatever melee, have to change targets and hopefully my other team members will have a stance or know how to kite.

Without Guardian, I have to constantly heal the target and since they don't kite, there seems to be no end to it. And sometimes two or more melee fall onto these Squishies with no stance who does not kite and then I have to spam a whole lot to keep up with the damage. That's when I really do wish I have my Guardian.

But I understand that I should not be sticking with a group like that. So that means I would have to leave after every match until I get a better group. While with the hybrid, I can make it to five wins before I have to leave and try again. Wouldn't that get more Glad points?

Remember, I have no friends to sync with so getting a good group is all on luck.

GwOxygen · Oct 05, 2010, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Your hybrid bar is the way to go imo. That's what I run and I love it.

KPEATOP · Oct 05, 2010, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Pure heal will be my choice.
I`ve made the jump from Mo/A to Mo/W and i can say that - pure heal monk is much better then a prot/heal monk in RA.
There is one big thing that can spoil your game.
Daze condition - you can`t remove it with the dol. signet/bonetti monk. Bring Contemption of purity for fast remove. It works really good for hexes. You have vig. spirit + patient spirit on you which can help you get rid of 2 hexes in a blazing fast way.
Even if you are a master healer your team can screw you so don`t cry - rejoin and go for it again.

ac1inferno · Oct 05, 2010, 04:34 PM // 16:34

If I bring CoP on the Pure Heal, the only skill I can think of dropping would be Cure Hex. But then I won't be able to remove hexes off myself as often.

When it comes to Daze on the Pure Heal, I was told to use Patient Spirit for heal, tank it off with Dolyak Signet and auto attacking with Vigorous Spirit, then block the next Daze with Bonetti's Defense.

As the Hybrid, I use Bonetti's Defense, then either Dismiss Condition if there is no cover condition, or throw up a Guardian first and then try for Dismiss.

With my luck, I often don't get good teams. So with the Pure Heal, I have to keep retrying until I get a good team before I can get a win streak. As the Hybrid, I can take a bad team to at least five wins before I would need to leave and retry for a better one. Because of this, I think the Hybrid would get more Glad points than the Pure Heal so I kind of lean more towards Hybrid than Pure Heal, or am I miscalculating?

Coast · Oct 05, 2010, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Sin

Furthermore, the post above is correct. With Discipline and proper shield set (7/15 is best, weakness spam often brings down the 8 tactics to 7 and thus halving your armor gain)

Always thought 7/16 is the best, isn't it?

AndroBubbles · Oct 05, 2010, 05:24 PM // 17:24

If you have trouble properly preprotting and kiting, then of course a pure heal bar will be best for you, but for the person who can effectively perform these actions, a hybrid bar is their best friend. Rather than having to draw+woh through a shock axe/palm strike/etc spike, you can guardian and prevent half the attacks from going through, allowing for variables because it's not guaranteed to be exactly half due to percentage chance. That said, if you just aren't very good with prots, then guardian won't do you much good, because a decent frontliner will just change targets too quickly, or even worse target YOU, when you specced into prot prayers and removed a self defense slot. On top of this, even if your positioning is good, do not enter RA with just guardian and no other immediate defense against melee. You cannot kite forever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Sin

Guardian gets you interrupted (dshot, Power Spiked), and people shouldn't be KDed as often if they know how to kite (just remember positioning). Furthermore, the amount of damage preventable by a well-placed guardian detracts from the amount of speccing into Heal or Divine Favor or Tactics, all of which are meant to preserve the monk.

Also, if your Dom Mesmer doesn't know how to Cancel Cast or 40/40, they're doing it wrong.

If you don't know how to cancel cast or 40/40, you're monking wrong.

I Jonas I · Oct 05, 2010, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

Always thought 7/16 is the best, isn't it?

Good luck finding a full set of 7/16 shields for anything less than your right arm

Reverend Dr · Oct 05, 2010, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Seriously, are people trying to argue that pure heal is more efficient and that you shouldn't bring any prots?

What the hell happened to the people playing this game?

urania · Oct 05, 2010, 08:56 PM // 20:56

well, ce+rip+defile nec kinda beats the purpose of bringing guardian.

tealspikes · Oct 05, 2010, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Prots allow bad teammates to continue playing badly. Since RA is full of bad teammates hybrid wins (unless your feeling lucky).

galactic · Oct 06, 2010, 03:04 AM // 03:04

sins kill, hammers qlock

buy gaurdian insurance

We Play ''Fragway'' Alot · Oct 06, 2010, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Ey,

I always run the hybrid 1, but latly i take out dolyak for disciple stance couz that works great for me i did a 21 win run yesterday. Latly thats rly hard to do if you dont syc like a tons of people do and it rly dont like that if i faced a well balanced syc team vs my random team(but i cant hate them to do that couz i understand why the do that) but isnt it suppose to be RANDOM arena? but at 21 wins i dced so i stil feel lucky i had a decent team that had self block or know how to kite.

I Think guardian is very helpfull also alrdy noted above. (im talking about Serius Bsns)
Its for interupt if i see the other team got a ranger i kite behind for example a wall and let the mesmer or ele cast somthing with guardian up so he doesnt get interupted. Or if the ranger got magebane then i cant help it either but anyway its helpful for a targets getting trained and you cast (cancel cast if needed and if you know how to manage energy since cancel cast takes you to 0 energy fast if doing it to much or you cant manage it because you dont know how or just dont see the right time to do it) it on that 1 so that the melee changes target or gets his attacks blocked. that aswell saves you some time to get his health back. For the hybrid 1 you also need some knowledge of watchingfield but i think in RA that shouldnt be a problem. Also try to watch field for mesmers useing stuf like diversion so you can respond fast and dont cast somthing true it by acsident.

Dont know if you need it but i just want to give you some advice or else some others who may need it(just the way i play it) :

My advice is just practise the build that fits you best and dont quit if you lost like 20times just practise you learn it. Ofc kite and if you got the time get bonneti's up with furios spear i cast guardian on my +encht spear set just for me take make it easier to not weapon swap to much. Then if i cast other stuf from healing prayers i cast it on 40/40 set and swap to spear set when done that. also i cast holy veil on a half recharge time of all skills staf.

Mabye some stuf is not good english i ame from holland so dont hate me :S
Also if somebody thinks i ame wrong just say so and say why you think that.
But DONT trash talk.
k just wanted to say this. GL & HF playing Guildwars.
Peace

Errant Venture · Oct 06, 2010, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Seriously, are people trying to argue that pure heal is more efficient and that you shouldn't bring any prots?

What the hell happened to the people playing this game?

In RA it is. In organized areas (I.E. top 50 GvG) guardian is the most useful skill on your bar because teams are larger and far more spread out. Warriors are more coordinated and know how to properly spike and pressure. In GvG guardian can often prevent 200+ damage on a single 8 spec cast. In RA that rarely happens, it's not often that guardian will prevent more damage over its duration than WoH will heal for.

tl;dr for gvg guardian is the best skill on your bar. for tombs it's soa. for RA it's patient/woh.